Luna Amanita
So we’re in Parkhead, which, is in East Glasgow and one of the poorest parts of Glasgow. And we get volunteers from our local area, but we also, like, we do get volunteers from, say, Dennistoun or Southside and, like, there’s a broad demographic of kind of service users, I guess, and and people who want to engage with the space. And, like, yeah, like I mentioned, like, maybe there’s different interests, there’s different capacity, there’s different ability. Like, we’re trying to be more responsive to that because, yeah, like, the gardening and food production orientated sessions are great, but there’s a job to do.
Fay Young
Hello. Fay Young here, and I’d love to take Niall with me to the wash house garden, which was my first opportunity to get out into the real world with this podcast. But if Glasgow’s Walls Could Talk, were there amongst some interesting old walls. And Niall, I was thinking how much you could add to the setting in terms of your knowledge of, wash houses perhaps.
Niall Murphy
Well, I’d I’d have loved to have been there particularly given my, wearing my Govanhill Baths Building Preservation Trust hat because, obviously, we’re kind of in charge of helping to restore the what was Glasgow’s largest steamy.
So, yeah, I’m very interested in, you you know, steamy architecture and also the kind of the amazing social history aspect of the steamy, which is what Govanhill Baths are trying to record. All that fantastic working class social history, which, you know, is at risk of it getting lost. And so we are very interested to hear how you go on.
Fay Young
So today, we have a real spring treat, and the weather has even been quite kind. We’d like to take you on a real life visit to the wash house garden in the east end of Glasgow.
Fay Young
I’m here with Luna Aminata. A co director of the Pioneering Community Enterprise, which is bringing new life to a piece of land behind the old Parkhead wash house. The steamy was once a vital part of the local community, and now we’re going to discover how this it’s half acre of garden?
Luna Amanita
Half an acre, yeah.
Fay Young
Yeah. It’s bringing local people together again with a revitalizing sense of purpose. Luna, would you like to lead us around?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. Sure.
Fay Young
Where should we start?
Luna Amanita
Maybe we should start right at the bottom of the dugout and and work our way the people come in.
Fay Young
So this this piece of land, what was it before?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. So it’s an interesting one. We believe it was the steamy the drying ground for the steamy the wash house, way back, and have heard from people who’ve been in this area for a long time that it was used as a food growing space, during the war. Right. We haven’t been able to verify that, but it’s quite a nice idea that we’re tapping into this heritage Yeah.
For food production. More recently, it was set up by the local housing association as a more typical community garden. And then it was taken on and trying to transform from that into its current state, 6 years ago.
Fay Young
Wow.
Luna Amanita
And, yeah, it was turned from a community garden into a more market garden set up. So we are standing at the foot of the garden and there’s 10, beds that just start running along the floor and
Fay Young
Almost like a runway, aren’t they? Long beds.
Luna Amanita
That’s yeah. Yeah. Like, ton runways, of yeah. Bed’s about a 100 foot, and this is the most market gardeny part of the garden, because what we do here is, like, intensely cultivate crops and have, like, a strict, crop rotation. So, we grow, like, a wide variety of vegetables, and as soon as they’re kind of ready to harvest, we’ll be getting them out of the ground, and then we’ll be putting in the next thing.
So we’re at quite limited space, but we want to maximize the space we do have Right. To grow as much food as we can.
Fay Young
I saw that you’ve got some grapes. Oh, yes. Broad beans. That was, but what is this stuff lurking under the ground?
Luna Amanita
So we’re recording in mid April, so it’s quite early for for us. But in a month’s time, this whole space is gonna be really very green and planted out. At the moment, we’ve got broad beans, we’ve just sown carrots last week, shallots, and I think we’ve also done turnips in this section.
Fay Young
The ground looks very nice. You keep it, well mulched, do you, or composted?
Luna Amanita
Yes. Exactly. We describe ourselves as eco ecological. So our ethos is kind of restoring soil, and promoting soil health over time. So we add in as much organic material as we can that we compost here on-site.
And then recently, the last couple of years, we’ve been ordering in more compost to top up the the site as well. Actually, we don’t have road access here, so, like, getting all the compost into the site has been the labour of the last month or so
Fay Young: So what do you do, because you have quite a narrow path up from the main road
Luna Amanita: Barrels. Yeah. I think we probably did 10 ton bags of compost.
Fay Young: Ten ton bags.
Luna Amanita: Yeah. So we’re
Fay Young
That’s hefty.
Luna Amanita
Yes. Or achy, one or the other. Oh, gosh. And then, yeah, as I mentioned, this place will soon be very green and like we’ll be growing lots of different things. We’ll do like a lot of radishes early in the season, salad, is really like a a winner for us.
Lots of more beans, like, especially French beans. Basically, if you can grow it in Scotland, or in Glasgow, I should say, then we do try. Because of the limits on the amount of space we have, we don’t tend to do a lot of, potatoes and onions or things that are
Fay Young
Yeah.
Luna Amanita
Quite space intensive. But other than that, we’re pretty diverse in what we’ve heard.
Fay Young
Yeah. You’re very impressive. So I’m just trying to work out, are we Is that south facing?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. That’s south.
Fay Young
Yeah. And you’ve got the wall, so it it’s feeling quite warm in here. So when the sun is shining, it’s it’s quite a a gentle benign growing condition.
Luna Amanita
It’s reasonably sheltered, which is really handy for us. Yes. There’s a wall on on the south side, and buildings all around. As a market garden, that is really very helpful. And, like, if you ever visit, historic market gardens, they’ll have, like, a reasonably high wall all around them, because, like, we do you do wanna keep the wind out as much as you can.
That being said, because if we got this quite tall southern wall and, like, tall flats around us, it doesn’t mean we don’t get a lot of sun in the off season. That’s one of our challenges, but, you know, we do have you know, it’s also a benefit to have the wall. So it’s
Fay Young
Yeah.
Luna Amanita
Right. Shall we move on?
Fay Young
Speed on.
Luna Amanita
We could go up this this way. On my right, I’m just walking past some black foreign, hawthorn trees, bushes, some raspberries. So we planted up this bed, which was in rotation with with the other beds here until last winter, and with at which point we planted up with perennial plants. So this is a bit more what you might call permaculture design.
Fay Young
That’s fine.
Luna Amanita
The idea being that, yeah, these plants will be in here for much longer and they’ll establish and, in some ways, be, like, much lower maintenance. And just going past the cherry tree, which has pretty gorgeous, white blossoms just now, and some rhubarb.
Fay Young
Nice tree
Luna Amanita
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
So we got bees here, and I don’t think they need to go much further than our garden for for their foraging. Absolutely. They also help us by pollinating our crops. And now we’ve come to a wider section of, what we just call our food forest. So like like the bed I was just describing, this is more, grown in along permaculture principles.
So we’ve got a couple of fruit trees, couple of apple trees, and and plum, And it’s not as intensive to, kind of, work this style of growing. And you can, like, let there be weeds because in this context, you know, they’re not weeds. They’re just part of the, you know, the canopy of growth.
Fay Young
And already, you’ve got a colour in here with the honesty flowers
Luna Amanita
and The honesty. The dandelions.
Fay Young
Yes. Which, are are full of life, aren’t they? And and, forget me nots.
Luna Amanita
Forget me nots, I think. Yes. In between the dead nettles
Fay Young
And is this
Luna Amanita
This is oregano.
Fay Young
Oregano. That one. Isn’t that lovely? Lovely big spread of it.
Luna Amanita
Yeah. It’s kinda lower input for us. It does mean we don’t get as much yield as the, kind of, more classic market garden setup. But it’s gorgeous. It’s better for the ecosystems, because we’re not uprooting the plants that they wanna live in or disturbing the soil at all, really.
And a kind of broad, long term aim is to move more into this style
Fay Young
Uh-huh.
Luna Amanita
Of gardening and and food production. Yeah. I think especially in the community context, it makes sense to have something like this where, you know, you could, there’s other places in the city that will grow fruit trees, and then anyone can just come and collect the produce. And I think, yeah, that’s kind of something that we’re interested in kind of expanding here.
Fay Young
There’s a there’s a different mood even in, you know, a small space. There’s a different mood in this area, isn’t there? Tell us about the your little friend over there.
Luna Amanita
Yes. Actually we inherited. So, as I mentioned, the local housing association used to have a community garden here, and maybe 10 years ago or so that was active. But, yeah, we when we inherited the site, we also inherited these, very charming wooden carvings. This was a little deer in the tucked in the dead nettle.
Yes. And, yeah, we’re really fortunate because these these trees were, these larger trees here were were planted by the housing association. And it meant that we knew that this land was safe to grow on, which is not a given in the city, and especially not in Glasgow. So, yeah, that’s kind of this area. Maybe you can move over to the closest thing that we have to a building here, which is our canopy space, which, yeah, is a large outdoor space, with a roof but not walls, that allows us to have community groups, using the space and this will be where we gather for our potluck lunches and our volunteer groups.
And, yes, it’s just, like, makes, especially the winter, much easier. Yes. To having a little bit of a dry space to go back to. And, yeah, we’ve got the fire going just now, and kind of storing quite a lot of stuff in here as well. Yes.
Fay Young
It has a really good lived and worked feeling to it.
Luna Amanita
Thank you. I think that’s a compliment.
Fay Young
It is. It is. And behind you, there’s the polytunnels.
Luna Amanita
Yeah. So we’ve got 3 polytunnels, 2 smaller ones and a larger one, and they are really integral to kind of our systems here. I’m gonna walk you through the propagation tunnel, which is where we start almost everything we go here, we start off indoors or in the propagation tunnel.
Fay Young
Oh, look at this.
Luna Amanita
It’s just a place with lots of tiny baby plants. Yes. And,
Fay Young
Look at them.
Luna Amanita
If you’re ever feeling stressed, it’s quite a good place to go. Yeah.
Fay Young
Yes. All this new life and looking very healthy as well.
Luna Amanita
Yes. Especially, yeah. Coming up now we have it’s been a slow start to the season, it’s been pretty cold spring, But, yeah, now getting very full here, and lots of things that are almost ready to plant out. So, yeah, like I mentioned, like, the relatively bare section we started in will will will soon be much fuller.
Fay Young
I can see that.
Luna Amanita
So, yeah, it’s it’s very exciting for us. Winters can be quite long.
Fay Young
Yes. And this one seems to have been a lot longer.
Luna Amanita
Extra. A bit extra this year. Yes. As I as I mentioned, we we we, we start almost everything off indoors, and that really allows us to control the conditions, which is really important in these first couple weeks of growing. And it allows us to kinda time things so that when we are ready to harvest one crop, like, we can see what’s ready to go in and
Fay Young
Yeah.
Luna Amanita
And we can, over time, like, get better at the timings of of things. So, yeah, that’s kind of the
Fay Young
So you’ve you’ve got some really terrific mixture in here. Pak choi and celery and, kale.
Luna Amanita
This is cauliflower, Romanesque of cauliflower. And we’ve got some flowers that are coming up. But again, yeah, we’ve put we’re gonna plant that to kind of help the diversity in the garden.
Fay Young
And and more herbs. Mint.
Luna Amanita
More yeah. Catmint here. Yeah. And, like, yeah, propagated a few of our perennial plants, so gooseberries and
Fay Young
Yeah.
Luna Amanita
And blackcurrants and stuff. And I’ll just take you through see one last thing
Fay Young
Okay.
Luna Amanita
Which is the bees. Oh. Maybe we won’t get too close, but we should be okay just just out here.
Fay Young
Goodness me. I didn’t expect to see them so busy.
Luna Amanita
It’s yeah. They’ve actually they don’t seem to be having a bad season at all. We
Fay Young
How interesting.
Luna Amanita
We did what’s called a hive inspection earlier this morning, in in one of our hives, and it’s really it seems very full.
Fay Young
Oh, gosh.
Luna Amanita
And we’ve added on an extra sort of super to give them more space. So, yeah, they they don’t seem to be slowed down at all.
Fay Young
What kind of what kind of honeybees are they? Are they?
Luna Amanita
Generally, like, most honeybees are kind of like a mix. Yeah, we’ve run courses around beekeeping and
Fay Young
How many bees are there, do you think?
Luna Amanita
There’s 2 hives that we’re looking at. Hives. They’re both busy. There’s lots of foragers coming back to the hives and getting trapped at the entrance. It’s just too busy.
The the box on the on the bottom of the hives, this is quite wider than the supers and, taller than the supers even. It’s got a brood box. And I think, you know, you’re talking in the 1,000. I think it’s it’s, 1 or 4. I think it can be 3 to 4000.
And that’s that is gonna top of my head. So Okay. What an amazing, thing to have to to be able to interact with these guys.
Sometimes we interact with them, yeah, more than we’d like to. So let’s let’s move away. But I’m
Fay Young
So have you done the beekeeping course as well, Luna?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. So, couple years ago, we got funding to run beekeeping sessions, and we had a really knowledgeable beekeeper who, yeah, very generously, like, taught the sessions. And then I was kind of co running those.
Fay Young
Right.
Luna Amanita
And then last year, I became the beekeeper with that training. So
Fay Young
Gosh, I didn’t realize we were talking to the beekeeper.
Luna Amanita
Now now me and Jack are are sharing the responsibility. But, yeah, it’s, it is like a steep learning curve, I I would say. Because, yeah, there’s there is actually quite a lot to it. And from spring until until maybe November or so, like, they, you know, they’re a bit like a pet. You need to, need to be, like, checking in on them, do a hive inspection every week or so.
So, yeah, they’re fairly demanding. But, yeah, maybe let’s sit around the fire.
Fay Young
Lovely. So thank you very much. That that’s a a lovely introduction. Can you tell us a bit more about how you became involved?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. So I started off here as a volunteer in 2021, and it was kind of like a interesting junction point for the for the project. Because Max, the founder, had until that year been running it, more as a market garden than a community garden. But then he started bringing in volunteers that year and I was one of them. And, yeah, I think, like, it became obvious to him at that point that, like, yeah, the community part of it, that was, like, that was the real offering or that was what could be the best way to utilise the space.
And and, like, when I joined, it was really such a lovely crowd of us. It was during lockdown or just coming out of lockdowns, and, yeah, a lot of people had come and get involved during that period. And we would, yeah, just do volunteer sessions twice a week and, share a potluck style lunch. And, you know, we’re nowhere we were there to get the gardening the jobs of the garden done but oftentimes those lunches would they would go on a bit, let’s say. And that was 2021.
The following year, Max brought me on to help out with the admin for the business, and I was still volunteering as a for the gardening group. And then last year, he and his partner had a baby. So very quickly, it became my, this became my baby. Oh,
Fay Young
so that was a really big step up in responsibility.
Luna Amanita
Yeah. And I’m not a I’m I’m not a gardener by trade. Alright. I haven’t been I’ve never done any horticultural training.
Fay Young
What did you do before? What what was your line of work?
Luna Amanita
So I’ve worked in care before that and until he offered the the at first, like, the admin side of stuff, and then and then more responsibility. It hadn’t really occurred to me as a career but I’m very grateful that it did.
Fay Young
So working with working in a garden, a community garden, you are also working with people. Mhmm.
Luna Amanita
It’s it’s not just about growing plants, you’re establishing relationships and and in an environment where people come together and, so that does take well, as well as organisational skills, you know, just getting to know one another.
Fay Young
How how many people do you have coming here? How volunteers and and members of the community?
Luna Amanita
It could be quite variable. There’s been points where, like, our volunteer sessions would have five or six people coming regularly, and then they’re, like and then that might it might just go down to one or two. And we’re we’re quite we’re at the beginning of this season. We’ve just started up with our gardening volunteer shifts, garden volunteer sessions. So we’ve only got two or three at the moment, but, yeah, we’d anticipate that to build up over time.
But, also, like, yeah, we’re in a bit of, like, a place of flux within the project and, hoping to move more or so in the community direction. So we’ve also just started community sessions on Fridays, which are more aimed at, involving the community and being responsive to what they want to do rather than the needs of the the the growing schedule and and and work. And, again, yeah, those are just started and only a couple people so far. But, hopefully, those will build up and then we’ll be able to reach people who have, yeah, different interests and different needs from the space.
Fay Young
So you have people coming from roundabout? Mhmm. Because you really are right in the heart of a residential area, aren’t you?
Luna Amanita
We’re very residential. Yeah. So we’re in Parkhead, which, is in East Glasgow and one of the poorest parts of Glasgow. And we get volunteers from our local area, but we also, like, we do get volunteers from, say, Dennistoun or Southside and, like, there’s a broad demographic of kind of service users, I guess, and and people who want to engage with the space. And, like, yeah, like I mentioned, like, maybe there’s different interests, there’s different capacity, there’s different ability.
I like and we’re trying to be more responsive to that because, yeah, like, the gardening and food production orientated sessions are great but they are you know, there’s there’s a job to do.
Fay Young
Yeah. Yeah.
Luna Amanita
And Yeah. I guess maybe it’s worth mentioning that, like, we are here growing lots of interesting things, but maybe, like, to a lot of people, especially in in areas like this, it’s it’s quite unusual and, like, maybe a bit foreign as well. So there’s yeah. I think there’s long term work to be done on on firstly convincing the the the very local people, the very local community that this is a space for them, but also, like, to introduce them to or, like, generate interest in in a wide variety of vegetables. Or, you know, like, having at least like more of a conscious relationship to food and where it comes from.
I guess that we do see that as part of our our mission here.
Fay Young
Yes. I was I was going to ask you because you’re you’re you’re talking about being perhaps looking at how it works and and how what it’s for. But you have a core set of aims. Is that right?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. I think our USP at at to an extent, and I think it is fairly unusual, is to marry the intense output, like, a lot of food production on the small amount of space. With a community garden, you know, oftentimes, you know, these things exist, but they exist separately. And what we are about, to an extent, is restoring relationships to food, growing to food, to land, and the access to those things to communities that are not enjoying those benefits. And it’s, yeah.
Like, certainly, when I started volunteering here, the idea around feeding people does add, like, a certain quality, a certain meaning to the to the work. Not that ornamental gardens are are not also, like, really valuable, but, yeah, we think this is also something that people should be able to do. And in an urban context, it could be quite difficult to access. Yeah.
Fay Young
Yeah. Mhmm. The benefits of coming here are are quite varied. Do you notice, do you feel, that those, people changing or or showing new sense of confidence or use gaining new skills? Is is that part of what you do here as well?
Luna Amanita
Yeah. Definitely. And yeah, we’ve had volunteers, who I think have have really had a lot of impact from being involved with the space and, like, building confidence, maybe, like, building employability skills. We’ve had people who like me or, like, I never thought that this food growing was for me and then have gone on to pursue as a career. And, yeah, I think there is, like, quite tangible things like that.
But also I do yeah. I I feel like there’s, kind of harder to pin down, more ethereal benefit to engaging with with the land in such a tangible way. Literally, you’ve got your hands in the soil. And to me, yeah, there’s something about, like, connecting to practices that have been done by people for a very long time. And the secret is out now about, like, the benefit of being outdoors and, yeah, I increasingly understood, like, the, like, the for example, the benefits to your gut bacteria if you’re getting your hands dirty and, regularly.
But, yeah, like, also to me, like, there is a bit of, like, a yeah. I would for me, it’s a a spiritual thing, to be in in communion with the land in that way.
Fay Young
Yes. And I think it’s something that we don’t think about street, cities as streets and concrete
Luna Amanita: and
Fay Young: hard hard landscaping, and yet it is all built on the land, isn’t it? And and Yeah. You don’t have to leave things alone for very long for nature to reassert itself and Okay. Grow back through the cracks. Yeah.
So, but you have you have a it’s half an acre, and it’s fertile, and and it responds to to what you’re doing. That must be very rewarding. Perhaps we could talk a little bit about the actual practical things, the activities in the the calendar. So you’ve been talking about the workshops that you do and and we’ve had a look at the planting calendar, it’s already well on its way. But what’s on the agenda for, activities here in the in the near future?
Luna Amanita
Things are really getting rolling just right now. But, yeah, we’re gonna continue our our volunteer sessions on Thursdays that are, yeah, orientated towards the the needs of the of the product of the crops and, doing lots of seed sowing, planting out, lots of lots of weeding. But then on Fridays, we’re also gonna be doing these community sessions and, yeah, like, to, in a sense, seeing what the community wants it to be about. Could do things like, you know, sowing wildflowers, looking around at the ecology of the space and, you know, trying to identify different bugs. They could just come and hang out, you know, like, if that’s what what people wanna do, then then that’s great.
And, yeah, we’re just starting this week working with local partners to run gardening sessions for people who are pregnant and going through the, maternity process, but might, face barriers to that, mostly because they’re women from refugee backgrounds. And, yeah, another partner organization supports local young people. So we’re gonna do that, like, a combined group. And, again, yeah, like, I guess, it’s taking a holistic approach to the health of of these people, because, really, it’s just about being in the green space, having a social, outlet and way to connect. And, again, like, that does feel like a really it makes a lot of sense for for spaces like this, for spaces like for projects like ours.
Maybe for a lot of people, the benefit is being here and, like, to be in community and yeah. Like like you mentioned, to grow food and community as well. It’s like, these are such restorative practices. So, Mondays, we’re here just a our little team, and then Tuesdays is is the those sessions. And then we’ll be doing the Bee Club.
It’s already fully subscribed. I know we’ve got a waiting list, but, we’re gonna be running once a month sessions, to teach what we know about beekeeping, but, like, but more broadly to expand the kind of pool of people looking after our bees here because, like I mentioned, there’s quite a lot of work. It’s like, you need to be quite seem to be here. And sometimes we wanna take holidays. So our our hope is to get a group that’s relatively self organizing and sharing information, sharing knowledge, and enthusiasm, and, yeah, looking after the bees with us.
And, yeah, again, like, that model of, you know, this being a place of mutual learning, mutual growth, I think, is, you know, we don’t have all the answers maybe, you know, only 20% of the answers. So that makes sense to me and to us.
Fay Young
It is when you have groups working together, it’s amazing what other people know, isn’t it? And sharing and learning for one another is a really great experience. It’s when when we’re sitting here, you know, we’re watching a bee going past you as you as you were talking, and we’re hearing the birds sing. It it’s a it’s a lovely space to be in. We are all terrifically conscious, I think, of places where life isn’t as as enjoyable.
And and also this when you’re growing and working in a garden, you’re really very much aware of how the climate is becoming much more challenging. Mhmm. And is that something you’ve found?
Luna Amanita
It’s an interesting one. Growing food in the west of Scotland is always gonna be challenging and has been, I think, yeah, time immemorial. And historically, the east of Scotland was was where most market gardens would be found. Yeah. Slightly better climate for for food growing and and much better soil and flatter.
So it yeah. It’s it’s difficult to say, honestly. I I’ve been here, as I said, since my since 2021. So, you know, every season has felt quite different in terms of, you know, climatically. But is Glasgow always just like that?
Is West Scotland always like that? It’s hard to say. I think what’s kind of scary for us as as things as the climate continues to become more unpredictable, is actually drought, which is an interesting problem to be worried about in in Scotland and Glasgow. But we here are really very fortunate. We have really sandy soil.
Most of Glasgow is quite clay soil. So the predictably huge amount of rain that we get isn’t an issue, isn’t as much an issue for us because it drains and doesn’t drown all our poor little seedlings. But it does mean we’ve got this handy, so if there was ever a drought and then, I guess, like, this time last year, last May, we had we did have a couple weeks without rain. We were managed to be responsive to that. But, that is a bit of a worry.
Yeah. And these kinds of challenges are only gonna get deeper, and it’s already food production in the UK, in Scotland, particularly in Glasgow, is already very challenging and also very, very necessary if we’re going to address the causes of climate change. Like, we really do need to be producing a lot more of what we’re eating and not importing it from overseas. So yeah, I guess, arguably, like, we should be really investing in figuring out how to grow more, like, at a societal level. We should be investing in in how to grow and produce enough food to to sustain us in Scotland so that we can, you know, have some preparedness for the challenges to come.
Fay Young
And it’s interesting in what you were saying at the beginning about this possibly being a garden during the Second World War.
Luna Amanita
Right.
Fay Young
And when people had to respond and adjust very quickly to that very thing that you’re talking about, being self reliant, self sufficient and, because you couldn’t import food.
Luna Amanita
Right.
Fay Young
So probably they were growing a lot of potatoes here I’m guessing.
Luna Amanita
Quite possibly.
Fay Young
And I think when you speak in those terms, and also maybe adjusting to a chain a warming climate, and, 22 things, you’re able to grow more things, but you might have to be working with the different kind of, pattern of weather. Too much rain at sometimes and not nearly enough at others. But also, it just an awareness of of, how the local and the global are really connected and I don’t know if that’s something you find in the garden in human terms and in in crop terms.
Luna Amanita
Right. Yes. Like like, working here and working the land, like I I I talked about it, like, to me, that is such a birthright. That’s something that I think old people or communities should have access to. And I really believe that if we are going to meet the challenges of the decades to come, we do need to restore and remember our connection to what is you know, these are our lands.
Not in a sense that we own that, I don’t believe in owning land, but in the sense that these are the thing these are the c, this is the relationship that has sustained our communities for a long time. And when I say sustained, I don’t just mean fed us, but also, like, given us a context of our own position in the world and and and in history and in geography. And, yeah, along those, I guess, like, I want to, like, draw the connection between and, like, the histories of of this land and how they are manifesting in different ways in the world we have today. I think a lot of the health issues that people in Scotland, people in Glasgow, people in Parkhead face is because of historical forces that have severed that connection that sustains us, physically, spiritually, emotionally. And, yeah, here in Scotland, it’s it’s not in living memory, you know, the Highland Clearances, enclosure, and so on.
But that is part of a process which has continued and continues of displacing people from their land, from their ingenuity, and, as we speak, is still ongoing in in Gaza and Palestine. And we perceive ourselves in a global community and struggle to restore land to people. And I think that the more I personally am in relation to the land and what it offers and what it provides us, the more sure I become that the only way to a just future is remembering our connection to the land, remembering that that’s sacred, and restoring the lands that have been stolen and are being stolen.
Fay Young
Oh, that’s very nicely put. And that just being in the growing world, I think you feel that much more strongly. Mhmm. The cost of running a space like this, you know, what what does it cost and and how do you pay for it?
Luna Amanita
It’s you don’t get into horticulture to get rich. I think probably it’s never been something that people have done because they want to be wealthy. But particularly now in our food system, growing food on our scale, like, a very small amount of land relative to, you know, like, to other farms is really economically challenging. And we are reliant on grant funding for what we do. And, I guess, you know, like, the pragmatic part of moving in more of a community garden side kind of direction is because, you know, like, this Max tried to make it work as a business that just grew food and sold food and it’s not really possible on our scale.
And I would say, like, we’ve since figured out not desirable or, like, not the best use of the space, but, like, yeah, that’s part of our kind of desire to move in a different direction and and perhaps, like, things like training and working with, higher education providers and and, like, health services is, like, part of our future. So, yeah, we’re largely grant funded just now and rely on the, goodwill of our team to accept the accept insecurity of doing this kind of work when you are, you know, when you are reliant on on grants and, you know, a yearly funding cycle. Yeah. Yes. We do have our vegplot scheme, which does it does help.
And we are a social enterprise. So, you know, we’re we use the money from the Vegbox scheme to help us run the rest of our kind of social program.
Fay Young
So tell us about the Vegbox scheme then. How does that what’s the, the structure of it then?
Luna Amanita
It’s, it’s a small one. Last year it was like between 20 30 households, and all of them are local. Again, maybe not a lot of them from Parkhead itself or the more deprived areas, I should say, of of East Glasgow. But, all of them from within the city, and we ask our customers to come here to collect the veg, which obviously has, like, very you know, has a logistically, it makes a lot of sense for us. But, also, you know, it has serving the purpose of people are directly seeing what what they’re getting and what we’re up to.
And we harvest those veg boxes the Thursday and then, you know, they collect them on the Thursday evening. So as fresh as can be. Really fresh. Which, yeah, I perhaps worth mentioning, like, the nutritional value of produce deteriorates really quickly. So, yeah, again, maybe it comes back to this thing.
It’s like, we deserve all of us deserve, like, freshly grown produce. And if people could do more of what we’re doing, you know, that could be much more available. At the moment, we run a kind of sliding scale model, for our boxes. So, for example, like, the medium sized box was, like, £10, £12, or £14 last year. And, like, the £10 is, like, is not making us any money.
So, you know, we can do what we can to try and to try and promote access and availability in our very small scheme. But, yeah, like, we have this multifaceted challenges in the food system where it’s, like, we’re importing huge amounts of food, but they are then not nutritious, and more luckily, green food is not affordable. And, like, the incentives within the food system are kind of I would describe them as the opposite way I would set them up, more towards a much larger scale production, which necessitates production methods that are not environmentally
Fay Young
It’s got built in waste, hasn’t it? Right.
Luna Amanita
And, like, yeah, the built in need to store things for a long time when they, you know, they’re getting shipped to to market, supermarkets. Yeah. It’s I I don’t think it’s a good system.
Fay Young
Not at all. No. Not at all. Enabling people to, to to get really fresh produce. Also perhaps encouraging, experimenting with different kinds of foods that they haven’t seen in the supermarket.
Luna Amanita
Yeah. Forced experiments.
Luna Amanita
People never know what to do with kohlrabi. That’s always the
Fay Young
Oh, kohlrabi.
Luna Amanita
People always in a pickle about that. Yes. Don’t don’t put it in a pickle. But,
Fay Young
It’s, it’s an extraordinary looking vegetable, but it actually tastes really good. It’s really crunchy.
Luna Amanita
I like it and it grows very well here.
Fay Young
Does it? It’s sort of like a turnip, I suppose, in behaviour, isn’t it? Yeah. Exactly.
Luna Amanita
But I think there is yeah. There’s also this issue of, like, the things that grow well here are often not very valued here. So kohlrabi is one. There’s a type of like salad green called Purse Lane or miner’s lettuce which could grow like way into the winter in Scotland and it’s delicious. Or, as the sun goes, it’s delicious.
But nobody eats it. So, yeah, I guess there’s also there’s cultural changes within built into those economic challenges within our food system. What was the question?
Fay Young
I was just wondering what what is so you’ve got kohlrabi, you’ve got what else have you got in the box?
Luna Amanita
It’s we try to be quite varied with it.
Fay Young
Yeah.
Luna Amanita
And, yeah, like like you mentioned, like, there are there’s a few times where people would be like, what is this?
Fay Young
Do you put recipe cards in?
Luna Amanita
What we’ve done in the past is have, like, a shared Google Drive.
Fay Young
Okay.
Luna Amanita
Of so people just share their recipes and and the volunteers. The customers can share them too. But yes. We’ll try to kind of have a lot of variety and, like, hit different, I guess, like macronutrients is a way of putting it. Like, we’ll try and put, like, beans or peas, something rich in protein, or try to put something quite starchy.
So we don’t do a lot of potatoes, but, maybe other root veg. Lots of turnips. Leafy greens grow really well here, salads, kale, a lot of kale. You’re going to learn to love kale if you don’t eat, a sustainable diet in Scotland. And we use the tunnels, to grow things that yeah.
And more easily appreciate let’s say. Like tomatoes, cucumbers, aubergines. And I am always campaigning personally to do more winter squash because it’s kind of my favorite. This doesn’t make a huge amount of sense to do for us because it’s in the ground for a long time and you only get a crop right at the end and Yeah. Like, it tends to make more sense for us to do things that are in the ground for a short time and give you, like, a a good yield.
But, yeah, also, like, we eat everything that we grow here as well, so we wanna be growing stuff that we like to eat.
Fay Young
Absolutely. Yeah. So maybe you could have the symbolic squash. You just grow a few of them, but you you really celebrate. But I was wondering about having cookery demonstrations here.
I used to belong, when I, in in Edinburgh I used to belong to a group that that did that. And, people from all over the world, you know, showed, say you had the Indian, African, Spanish, Scottish way of cooking the potato or the apple
Luna Amanita
We’ve got, a chef joining us for our Tuesday sessions with it’s kind of the the closed group. And they’re gonna be cooking on our fire right here using produce from the garden. Wonderful. So, yeah, tasty lunches for me. But, yeah.
Yeah. You’re right. And the great thing about working in a place like this and, like, these kinds of outdoors places is there’s so like, there’s no limit to the amount of things that you you can get into. And, like you mentioned, like, the mutual kind of mutual learning is, like, everyone’s gonna bring a different kind of interest to any one thing and, like, maybe different recipes from from different family members that go back back and back. So like
Fay Young
Yeah. Yes. Food is such an emotional thing actually and there’s nothing like making, growing, making and eating a meal together is is really perfect Yeah. Kind of cycle, isn’t it? Right.
Luna Amanita
It feels very, yeah, nurturing.
Fay Young
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So I I would just, one of the one of the questions we ask, guests is, do you find in the work that you do this this reason to be cheerful that despite all the awfulness that’s going on around us, that there is some hope. I mean, do you feel that from from the work that you do?
Are there signs of hope?
Luna Amanita
I think signs of hope are there. I really, want to be careful not to understate, like, the seriousness of the situation. And also, like, that when humans have faced a credible catastrophe before, largely, it wasn’t because of things we could’ve or things that could’ve been preventable. And, yeah, to me, would would have been preventable or more more prevented than they have been if there wasn’t the massive disenfranchisement of communities around the world. And as I’ve talked about, like, I believe removal from the land and the knowledges that come from the land is a massive part of that.
The reasons for hope, I think, are are yeah. Maybe, like, the thing that makes me hopeful is that I do really yeah. Like, I really believe, like, the getting back to communities organised around shared use of land, common goals, nurturing of one another, and, yeah, like, have, like, the resources within them to be sovereign, like, sovereign communities, I think that is the way through the crises that are happening, the crises to come. But what makes me hopeful is that if that happens, it would also begin to unravel a lot of the threads of domination, imperialism, alienation, I sound like an academic, and poor health, and I mean that I mean, poor health in the broadest sense that afflict us and have afflicted our societies societies even before the climate breakdown started to to become un ignorable. Does that make sense?
Fay Young
Yes, it does. It does. It’s The the hope and the despair are often very close together, aren’t they? But but, everything has to start somewhere, and what you’re doing here is is a very encouraging and
Luna Amanita
Thank you.
Fay Young
Uplifting start. And and it’s certainly sitting here. A lot of things feel possible. So amazingly, we’ve we’ve reached the end of our, conversation, except for one question that with which everyone gets asked, and can be difficult or not, depending on your way of looking at buildings. And and, it’s, to ask you what is your favorite building in Glasgow, and what its walls would say if they could speak.
Luna Amanita
I find it much easier to appreciate the
Fay Young
Well, it could be a space. It I don’t think it has to be a building. Great.
Luna Amanita
Okay. That’s where I’m going.
Fay Young
Great. Good.
Luna Amanita
Yeah. The beauty of natural design are outdoor spaces, which, you know, can be human spaces also, is something that I find much easier to appreciate. Last week, I went to the Southern Necropolis here in Glasgow, which is yeah. It’s in the Gorbals Bulls. It’s off this really big main road, and perhaps, like, not as well known about as the the the central Necropolis, but, it’s beautiful.
There’s old birch trees and lots of there’s a bit of a sense of wellness to it, and there’s lots of plants that really like living in in grave yards and cemeteries. And Yes.
Fay Young
It’s good, rich, environment. Right.
Luna Amanita
And it’s in terms of buildings, there’s a kind of I wanna call it a portcullis, it’s like a gatehouse, which, yeah, maybe when the necropolis was being built, like, security in these places was a big concern. But, obviously, it’s long abandoned now and the pigeons have taken up nest there. So I think that the walls who are speaking there would be goo goo. And, literally, they are. So I think that’s
Fay Young
That’s it. That’s lovely. It’s very different. Thank you so much Luna. Thank you.
It’s been really, a a very nice time to spend with you here and, we’ve covered a lot of ground and literally Yes.
Luna Amanita Thank you for metaphorically. Bearing with me.
Fay Young
Not at all. No. It’s it’s been a great pleasure. Thank you very much indeed.
Katharine Neil
Glasgow City Heritage Trust is an independent charity and grant funder that promotes the understanding, appreciation, and conservation of Glasgow’s historic built environment. Do Do you want to know more? Have a look at our website atglasgowheritage.org.uk and follow us on social media at Glasgow Heritage. This podcast was produced by Inner Ear for Glasgow City Heritage Trust and is sponsored by Tunnock’s.