Jackie Ogilvie
Underneath, we don’t have a lot to show you. It is the stories. It’s the stories that we need to keep telling. I’m a great believer for history, especially recent history. We need to keep telling the stories or the stories die. So if I can do my wee bit to tell the stories and keep that continuity going and make sure that people still remember the greatness of this wonderful city, I think that’s a privilege for me to be able to do that.
Niall Murphy
I feel very strongly about that too
Jackie Ogilvie
But it’s the story. It’s the stories. Other than that, I take you to a car park. I take you down to an old tunnel. I mean, the building itself is wonderful. However, once you go down underneath, it’s it’s a little bit less Architecturally divine.
Niall Murphy
You realise that when when you’re doing a tour and it’s the human stories people connect with.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely.
Niall Murphy
Hello, and welcome to the 3rd series of If Glasgow’s Walls Could Talk . I’m Niall Murphy, Director of Glasgow City Heritage Trust. And for this series, I’m joined by co host, writer, and editor Fay Young. We’re looking forward to sharing 10 fantastic stories with you. Glasgow’s walls are endlessly full of stories. And where better to begin than Glasgow’s Central Station? Right in the heart of the city, it’s the only station in the UK to run guided tours, and it’s revealing more and more of the social history hidden throughout this wonderful building. We’re about to meet Jackie Ogilvie, one of the very talented guides who brings these stories to life.
Fay Young
Yes, Niall. And that’s an intriguing story in itself. Jackie spent most of her working life as a banker, but in the last few years, she’s discovered her love for history, storytelling, and generally unearthing treasures. She’s going to lead us through underground passages down to the hidden Victorian platform, and on the way, we’ll be able to explore her great personal achievement, the new museum where she spent a remarkably productive and often very moving lockdown. But first, let’s hand over to Jackie to tell us how all this began.
Jackie Ogilvie
So the origin of the tour is our man, Paul. Back in the day, 10 years ago, he wanted to do tours of the station. Paul is a great reader and, really into the history of the station. And he was really keen to do tours. Boss supported, but a little bit cautious. So to try it out because none of this you have to remember back in the day. Nothing none of this has been done before.
Niall Murphy
Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
we were breaking new ground back then. And they they approached Glasgow City Council through Doors Open Day
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
And they took a 100 tickets for tours of the station. Part of the tours on those particular days was on the roof of the station. And we put the tickets on the website and got an excess of 80,000 applications. And as you can imagine, the tour started right after that because it was quite clear there was an appetite. So very much Paul’s baby. He’s been here.
Niall Murphy
Did not break the Doors Open Day website?
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. It broke the website on on on Glasgow City Council for 3 days, but but needless to say, the tours ran after that. So Paul’s been the constant. Myself, personally, I’ve been a tour guide here now for just coming up for 5 years. Loved it. Love every minute. My husband keeps saying he can’t believe somebody’s paying me to talk. So so it’s always always quite, quite good to come in and and feel that you can chat away with it without somebody telling me to be quiet. It’s quite good.
Fay Young
Are you interested in history?
Jackie Ogilvie
I would say I was interested in history to a degree. I like to think and I’ve got to watch I don’t get emotional, but my mother was a great storyteller and she grew up in the city centre of Edinburgh and lived during the war on Castleway North on the steps just at the Esplanade. And so she used to tell us all the stories about the city centre of Edinburgh, and and there were fantastic stories about and I would listen. And I grew up with that and I think that has been embedded in me. I was always interested to degree in history and especially in Scottish history. I worked as a banker for most of my working life and then took early retirement/redundancy. And I became a tour guide on the open top buses for a bit of fun. I wanted to do something different, something, I’ve always dealt with people. I’m a, you know, so it was I wanted to continue that, but I wanted to do something for me. And I I I just discovered that I loved it. I just loved it and it kinda got me in really more seriously into the background of especially this wonderful city. There’s just so much that a lot of the locals just don’t know.
Niall Murphy
Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
So to be able to share that was was a joy.
Fay Young
And did you have to do some training for the the bus tours?
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. When you become a tour guide with city sightseeing, the the the red buses that that tour the city. They put you through your yellow badge for your tour guiding. So you the Scottish tourist boat. Sure. So you get I think a yellow badge means a particular city. You have a green badge, which is multiple cities, and then you have your blue badge, which is the whole of Scotland, and that’s the qualification levels. So they put you through, I think it was 6 or 9 weeks training, which was was great in getting all the information, but also getting help on structuring your tours as well and what people were looking for, and how to engage them. It was always a great foundation for me doing the tours. That’s what gave me the the skills to get with you.
Fay Young
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Niall Murphy
It’s a definite art to it. I mean, I know from having done various walking tours, I’ve got to do one along the Clyde for the BBC’s coast program once. Yeah. That was a tough gig. Yeah. Because there was, like, nothing left. So you’re basically asking people to kind of visualize in their head what was once there.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes.
Niall Murphy
And it wasn’t until we got to the Clydeport building, which is amazing Yeah. That everyone suddenly really parked up. It’s like, oh, thank god. A piece of architecture that we actually talk about. Yes. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
And I think that that’s quite comparable to the station because, Niall, you’ve done the tour. Underneath, we don’t have a lot to show you. It is the stories. It’s the stories that we need to keep telling. I’m a great believer for history, especially recent history. We need to keep telling the stories or the stories die. So if I can do my wee bit to tell the stories and keep that continuity going and make sure that people still remember the greatness of this wonderful city, I think that’s a privilege for me to be able to do that, the building itself is wonderful. Yep. However, once you go down underneath, it’s it’s a little bit less architecturally divine.
Niall Murphy
You realise that when when you’re doing a tour and it’s it’s the human stories people connect with.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. And there’s so many things that and I’ll show you later on when we’re going through. There are things that you always hear. People start to tell their stories. It triggers memories with them.
Niall Murphy
Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
And then they start to tell their stories. And if that’s what happens when you’re here and and it’s continuing Yeah. Then You can you can you
Niall Murphy
can get proper dialogue.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. Absolutely. And emotionally, you know, it can it can go from quite a cold tour and then something that triggers somebody, you know, or a group to have memories and then suddenly it becomes very emotive
Niall Murphy
Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
And then very, very personal Yes. To the people that are on the tour.
Fay Young
So before we start the tour, if we could just spend a moment looking at what is around us because I suppose, like most people, when I come here, I’m on my way to catch a train.
Jackie Ogilvie
I think everybody is running and in a hurry. I’ll tell you what I tell my customers when they come on.
So on the 1st August 1879, Central Station opened their doors. She was built, of course, by the Caledonian Railway Company, and it was built on a site of a small village. A small village called Grahamston, which has been forgotten. But I’ll tell you I can tell you more about that later on. When we first opened our doors, she wasn’t the size she is today. She was we had 8 platforms. Where our platform 9 is today, that was our platform 1. And where platform 9 is, if you look at the green pillars with a huge rivets sticking out them, that’s the border. That was the original station. From from the green pillars out to Union Street. So that was the original station. 8 platforms. Couple of years later, platform 9 was added because well, this had been a bit of an experiment and passenger transport was growing at a pace nobody had predicted. And then, we were doing fine, but passenger transport was growing and growing. So in the initial build of Central Station in 1879, the west side of the village of Grahamston, that survived. Saint Columba’s Gaelic Church was the most famous building of that until 1901 when we decide it’s time to build an extension. So when we start our extension, the rest of Grahamstown is demolished. We take the stops, which the stops have come in here much further forward than what they do, to just in the middle of the concourse, really, that’s where the trains would have come to back in the day. And remember, people have this romantic notion that central station back in the day was a beautiful beautiful place and it was atmospheric, but it was a dirty, filthy place to come because you were coming in and the the smoke, all the stoor and the dust was coming in. The glass was black with the smoke caked on. So when we started our extension, we pushed we pushed them back. Stops for the trains really went back to where they are today, roughly, and we added on some platforms at the west side.
We also built a brand new bridge. For those of you who frequent Glasgow, I’m quite sure you’ll all have seen the supports for our original bridge. They stick out the Clyde. You can’t miss them if you’re down on the Broomielaw, you’ll see them or if or if if you happen to be on a train leaving on the east side, you’ll see them sticking out the river. And they just well, they just won the end of the road, so we left them. We built our bridge which doubled our capacity, but the problem that it gave us was when it was completed, the only place we could add our extra platforms on that we needed was the west side, and our numbering of the platforms was not what we needed. So we had to reverse it in 1906 . Once the extension was complete. So we we reversed the numbering. So if you see an old photograph of central station and 8 or 9 are over on the east side, it’s just old. It’s not wrong.
The roof is original. Glass replaced in 1998. So, she’s a longitudinal ridge and furrow. People will just think she’s just full of girders, which is right, and it plays absolute havoc with our Wi Fi. It’s just getting caught. We keep getting told it’s very good, but it’s not. And I think it is the girders interfere with it. Right. Okay. So longitudinal ridge and furrow roof is is the technical term for it. And that sounds quite technical. It’s really, really simple. Yeah. Because at Gorden Street is north. Out onto the tracks is south, she’s running longitudinal. And if you look up and see, you’ll see ridges and furrows just in where it says on the tin
Niall Murphy
Absolutely.
Niall Murphy
I love this roof. It’s really dramatic and powerful.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. And 2 sections. The architect for the original build was a man called Robert Rowand Anderson, and he did the original build. When it came to the extension, a former railway architect, James Miller, was awarded the contract for here. I’m a big big fan of James Miller and there’s so many so many buildings in Glasgow by this man. At the time, it was Glasgow’s most prolific architect. But he doesn’t get talked an awful lot about.
Niall Murphy
It’s a shame.
Jackie Ogilvie
It’s a sin
Niall Murphy
He should be better known.
Jackie Ogilvie
Oh, absolutely better known.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. His his interventions in this station are really interesting, working with Donald Matheson, the Caledonian Railway Company Engineer.
Jackie Ogilvie
They went they went to school together.
Niall Murphy
Oh did they? I knew there was a connection back in Perthshire. So that was it, right? That’s very interesting..
Niall Murphy
So the things like the the huge pods
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah.
Niall Murphy
The torpedo room, this is what it was called, which is where your tour stars from, I just think they’re amazing because they’re designed to make you flow through the station like a river. Because Donald Matheson had been to the United States and Canada to see what’s happening in stations there and brough those ideas back here.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah. If you look around at our internal buildings, we don’t have any corners. That was James Miller’s idea. Let it let everything flow through and it’s just soft and you’re you’re going through. So and again, that’s something that people don’t realise, but we don’t actually have any severe cornerstone.
So then in 1901, we’ve moved all the bits back. We’ve provided added our platform. And then at that point, we have to reverse our numbering of our platforms because we were going west to east. We had to turn that around and go east to west to fit in the extra platforms that we were adding in the extension.
Fay Young
It’s a nice simple idea, actually. Just renumber it!
Niall Murphy
I wondered about one thing, and I wonder whether you could this one. This has puzzled me for years. The dome over Champagne Central, because James Miller did the all the great liners. He did the interiors. He was the only one of the only architects to admit to actually do in this. As it was seen as beneath architects to be involved in kind of liner design, which amazes me.
Jackie Ogilvie
Of course, he had the Anchorline Building
Niall Murphy
He did.
Jackie Ogilvie
In in Saint Vincent Place.
Niall Murphy
And Lusitania, the interiors on the Lusitania. So but he worked with Oscar Patterson quite a bit, the great Glasgow stained glass artist. And I was told that that dome was originally stained glass, but it’s now it’s a plaster dome inside. And I wondered at some point if that changed. And before, Grand Central was kind of, you know, recreated and kind of regenerated, there in each of those windows, there was in the kind of the central pane of the kind of, you’ve kind of got the upper panes with the kind of the grids in them. The central pane had a piece of stained glass from Oscar Patterson in them. When it was refurbished, they were all removed because I remember them being there and I’ve no idea what happened to them.
Jackie Ogilvie
I apologise because I am not aware of that. I wasn’t aware of that.
Niall Murphy
So I just I’d always wonder whether that had continued up and say, don’t because he did all these fabulous domes elsewhere. Yes. It’s been lovely. And I wondered whether it might be removed from the 2nd World War. You wouldn’t want light shining up when
Jackie Ogilvie
Possibly. Possibly.
Niall Murphy
Bombing the city.
Jackie Ogilvie
Well, during World War II, of course, we painted our our glass black. In 1960s they tried to remove it, found it very difficult because it wasn’t just black paint. It was, in fact, the baked on tar from all the the the trains. And it wasn’t until 1998 that they replaced all the glass in the station as a renovation project. So people, when they come into the station today, accept that Central Station is a very light and airy place. Back then, it was a dirty, filthy, dark and very dark place. Very dark. And that was really up till 1998.
Niall Murphy
It’s amazing to think about
Jackie Ogilvie
This is not this is not a 100 years ago. This is just very recent. So and of course, there’s renovations going on just now.
Niall Murphy
Yes.
Fay Young
Yeah. Yes. You are struck by the light and and that’s reflected on the floor as well, isn’t it?
Niall Murphy
Yeah. I think this is 1980s, the flooring. So because it wasn’t wasn’t like this originally. Oh, no. The station has changed quite a bit. So there’s a ramp up at the back, which was for taxis. And so taxis were Central Central Station Hotel, was to come through the back around the back of the torpedo route, and then out that wee arch, which is now a pedestrian arch. So completely different nowadays.
Jackie Ogilvie
And and and is, Carriage Drive was originally created in the original station from the affluent members of society in Glasgow. They didn’t really want to mix with the riffraff on the concourse. So they would come up, they would come up carriage drive off Hope Street, and it’s like people will remember it because we all used it. Pick up our grannies or our aunties or whatever. At where platform 15/14 or 15 are today. So you would come up as a kind of spiral that comes up and you would come up to 14 and 15. And then we were offered and told we were getting a link to Glasgow Airport. So we brought 14 and 15 which had been sitting far out. We brought them in ready for that and we’re still So so and carriage drive is still in use, but only for emergency vehicles and and business access. Oh, that’s sweet. We can take a real look at the Classic. Absolutely. It’s quite interesting piece of architecture as well. So the concourse in itself, when you’re here, there’s lots to see. Mhmm. Most most people focus on the board, which is quite sad when all this beauty is around them. Mhmm. You’ll also notice that there are no pillars on the concourse. And again, the idea for that was that we wanted this flow. The load bearing for the roof, which as you can imagine, is quite substantial, are the pillars that run along the side.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
So all of the crisscrosses that you see in the girders creates a weight, spreading the weight and taking it out to the ends, and then it’s the pillars at the side that actually bear the load. And the same as behind the the behind the torpedo, you’ll see pillars again exactly the same.
Niall Murphy
Fascinating. I had no idea. I just think it’s such an evocative space. It’s my favourite space in Glasgow
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. And I don’t I I defy anyone in Glasgow to not have a story about Central Station. Mhmm. Most people have. And most people have a love for Central Station.
Niall Murphy
Very much.
Jackie Ogilvie
Queen Street Station, they can spend what they like on her. She’ll never have the kudos that Central station has.
Fay Young
Why do you think that is? I mean, it’s it’s is it because it’s the main arrival point for Glasgow for people coming from elsewhere?
Jackie Ogilvie
Sure. Let me move over the south. I’m I’m not really sure why that is, but everybody you speak to on the 2 tells you that it is, you know, that it is central Yeah. That pulls at the heartstrings. Yeah.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
Queen Street is just a way to get to Edinburgh and back.
Fay Young
Yes. Well, it is. It is. It is. Yeah. It is
Niall Murphy
It’s it has gotten better with its new extension butCentral’s got the history. Absolutely. And it’s something you make so much more of the history.
Jackie Ogilvie
And yet Queen Street’s older.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. I know which is really nice.
Jackie Ogilvie
And Queen Street has its own history. Yeah. She was built on on the the the Bell’s quarry or or Yes. And the Crack on House quarry quarry as it was known. Right. Built there when the sandstone quarry was exhausted. The city then went out to Giffnock to Bishopbriggs and they Yes. Sands more blonde sandstone. And the majority of the blonde sands when they built George Square came from
Niall Murphy
Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
Underneath where Queen Street Station was built.
Fay Young
Yeah. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
So there you go. That’s fascinating. So she has her own She does. But it’s not as good as central. I know. I know.
Niall Murphy
Fascinating.
Jackie Ogilvie
So she has her own history She does. Which is not as good as central. I know. Well, I mean,
Niall Murphy
I’m really interested by the fact that you’ve kind of really zeroed in on the history and you make so much of the history here too. Are there any other stations in the UK that kind of mainline stations that do that to the same degree?
Jackie Ogilvie
No. This is the only, at the moment.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
I will I will just put that in there, a wee caveat. At the moment, we are the only Network Rail station in the whole of the UK that does tours. But I know that, the London Underground do take you down underneath into old abandoned stations, but that’s the London Underground. But Network Rail, we are the only station that does formal tours like this and we’re the only one that has a formal museum. At the moment.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
That may change in the future. Plans are afoot to maybe look at expanding that because it is such an interest in it.
Niall Murphy
Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
And it’s Yeah. You know, people want it
Fay Young
And is is there any sort of pattern? What kind of people are most interested or can you touch hearts and raise curiosit in anyone?
Jackie Ogilvie
So we get a lot of railway enthusiasts who come. But the majority of the people who come on our tour are Glaswegians because Glaswegians love their city and they want to hear about their city and they want to tell hear the stories and they want to tell their story as well to share it with other people. So when they come on the tour, we do a lot of that. We do a lot of, you know, exchanging, of stories and it’s just it’s just wonderful. And it’s mostly mostly Glasgow. There’s a lot of people who come from a lot of other places too. I don’t want to to make it that. We get them a lot of Scottish, from all over Scotland. Paul has done a fabulous job in in bringing it alive and bringing it from just a guy that wanted to do some tours of his beloved station to to being the the business venture that it really is today.
Niall Murphy
Uh-huh. Yes.
Fay Young
And a model for others.
Jackie Ogilvie
Oh, yes. Very much so. Very
Niall Murphy
much so. Uh-huh.
Jackie Ogilvie
We’re not perfect, We’re absolutely not perfect. But but, yeah, we could do it elsewhere. Network Rail could recoup some of the you know, make some money out of it. Yeah. Do you want to move on?
Fay Young
Yes, please. Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
So we’ve just come up now from the main concourse. We’re heading up towards where the platforms 14 and 15 are. Just before the police, British Transport Police Office on our right hand side just ahead of us. And we’re just looking at the joining point, if you like, of the old and the new. With platform 9 here is you can see the green pillars. These green pillars with all those fabulous rivets sticking out, which is just wonderful. And that’s the border. That would have been the original 1879. Extension came along and this is from platform 9 out to Hope Street and all the way down to Argyle Street. That was the new part of the station. And you can tell by the roof. And straight girders in the original, arch girders in the extension. Again, this is us talking about Rob Rowand Anderson for the original and James Miller for the extension. So he created the extension here. I think I mean, engineers tell me that these arches are stronger, maybe a bit cheaper because how much finer they are. I think Jimmy Miller was just saying, this is my bit.
Niall Murphy
I think you’re right.
Jackie Ogilvie
Because I did this. He wanted it to be distinct.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. I think so. I think they’re a lot more elegant, I really like them because they’re so handsome. Straws are chunky and strong. Yes. And you know they’re doing a job. Yes. These are much more delicate by comparison.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. Absolutely. I really like
Niall Murphy
them too. I really like the contrast Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
In this. It is. It is wonderful. And the block the big blonde pillars here.
Niall Murphy
Yes. Yeah. The whole way that it’s kind of the one connection to the other is so elegant beyond. Yes. It’s So really nice.
Fay Young
Those huge arch windows
Jackie Ogilvie
But people come through here all the time and they they don’t even notice it. And then once once once you’ve seen it, you can’t unsee it. You will wait a minute. We’ll wait a minute.
Fay Young
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I wish you’d not
Jackie Ogilvie
How come I’ve never seen that before?
Fay Young
Yeah. Absolutely.
Niall Murphy
So and then you got the helienmens umbrella as well, which is again, really elegantly handled.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. That’s
Niall Murphy
such a huge bridge in the, you know, the heart of the city. And it could be quite,
Jackie Ogilvie
ugly. Thank
Niall Murphy
you. It’s probably near really beautiful. You did.
Jackie Ogilvie
That was William Arnold.
Niall Murphy
Yes. That
Jackie Ogilvie
So this is carriage drive here. So this is just in front of the BTP police office here and the old road that came up. As I said earlier, this is where you would have come up, no charges, it was great. You came up here, you picked up your granny right off the train and straight back down. So in the original days, the taxis on the trip would come up or your car would come up and you would drive down the back of where today we’ve got Marks and Spencers and Boots and out onto, right out onto Gordon Street. Today, restricted access for emergency vehicles, access that we need as a station to operate. And above the arch, you can see the Coat of Arms dThey f the Caledonia and Railway Company. Carved stone. And the sad thing about this arch being tucked away in here now is nobody gets to see that anymore. But we have a on the the the tour, we have a mural of the coat of arms. And it’s lovely, but it’s nothing like what you can see today. And if you really started looking. We have the cathedral windows out onto Hope Street again. This was we believe maybe James Miller was influenced by, Isambard Kingdom Brunel when he had designed his Bristol Temple Meads. Bristol Temple Meads became known as the Cathedral to the steam train. So to the Iron Horse. And these beautiful cathedral windows, again, they let so much light in.
Niall Murphy
They really do
Jackie Ogilvie
But again, people just walk past them and just take them for granted. Because we don’t have that on the east side.
Engineering, is a big part of central station as well. The buffers here, we have some original and we have some modern. If you go to platform 14/15, you’re up there. You’ll see a very different set of buffers than what we’ve got here at platform 10 and 11. Original from, we believe, the extension in 1906. These buffers here can stop a 400 ton train travelling at 12 miles per hour within 7 feet. They are powered by water. Problem with water is it’s got quite a high freezing temperature so they have their own central heating system to ensure that they don’t freeze. However, back in the late 1990s I think the late 1990s, apologies if that date is wrong, Somebody turned off the heating.
Niall Murphy
Not during that really bad winter.
Jackie Ogilvie
Couldn’t have chosen the worst time to do it. So, yes, they turned them off and they froze and they were some of them cracked. Right. So the plant had to be repaired, But the majority of them are still original. I believe it was the front parts that cracked. So
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
But an incredible piece and it really is.
Niall Murphy
The the Clyde froze over it was like minus 27 or something
Jackie Ogilvie
Couldn’t have picked a last year to turn off heat.
Niall Murphy
Now we’re gonna step through a door and Jackie, who will be taking us behind the scenes, will take us down a set of escape stairs that will take us all the way below to the mysterious vaults that are at the heart of the station below the main concourse.
Jackie Ogilvie
So we’ve arrived just outside, the museum. We’re now 2 floors down from the concourse. Mhmm. So I’m not gonna say 2 floors down from street level because we’re not
Niall Murphy
Probably about street level now. Yeah. Which is But we’re 2 floors down. It makes you realise how built up the concourse is.
Jackie Ogilvie
So yeah. It’s built up and and also Hope Street’s on on a bit of a slope. When I first came here, one of the things that I really wanted to get was one of the old departure boards. They resonate with the people of Glasgow because of a certain generation. I always say it’s anybody over 27, but that’s just because I’m including myself with it. So anybody who came in and frequented the station pre 1986 would remember these because this is how you found your way to your train. We didn’t have electronic boards. Nobody had electronic boards. It wasn’t just central. Nobody had electronic boards back then. So I was keen to get them. And difficult to come by, well, there’s plenty of them, but those that have them want to keep them. So until the Haughey family who own Glasgow Salvage and Paisley. They very kindly offered me this middle one on loan, and I grabbed it with both hands. Then Irene, who lives in the West End, her daughter contacted me to say that Irene had a couple of them lying in her garage. Did I want them? Irene’s late mother and herself had purchased these from British Rail when we changed over. So at that point, British Rail was selling pieces off so the public could come in and buy bits. I mean, they were selling all sorts. Departure boards were very, very, very, very in demand, shall we say. They sold well. They paid £7 and £7.50, and I’ve got all the original paperwork for them as well. So I then wanted to display them. I wanted to hopefully evoke some of these memories and the emotions that these bring. And our wonderful station joiner, Greg, he created this all from old photographs because Greg is just a young man and wasn’t born in by 1986. So so this is this is just it’s just wonderful. And people love it. People who come just love it because, again, it takes them back in time to maybe when they were young, waiting in the station to get on their train. So during the tours, a number of months ago, a lady, probably last year, There’s a lady on Paul’s tour. And as I said to you just a moment ago, emotions come when you see these things that bring back your memories of when you were younger and maybe better times. And a woman was on the tour, and she was she was very, you know, emotive at this point. And she said to Paul, I’ve got something, and I’m gonna bring it in for you. Mhmm. And what she handed in was a 36 inch wooden ruler. Mhmm. Now it’s no ordinary 36 inch wooden ruler because this belonged to a man called Sandy Moffat. Mhmm. And Sandy Moffat back in the day was Glasgow Central Station’s sign writer. Right. One of Glasgow Central Station sign writers. So there is a really good chance he is the man that painted by hand all of these boards and he used the ruler.
Niall Murphy
Isn’t it?
Jackie Ogilvie
This ruler here. Yeah. And I just love that story because
Niall Murphy
You can see the
Jackie Ogilvie
you can see the things back. Yeah. Yeah. You can see all the lines where he’s used it. The ruler, it’s fantastic.
Niall Murphy
Here we go!
Fay Young
Ooh!
Jackie Ogilvie
Welcome to the museum Welcome to the museum. This is what I spent my time doing.
Niall Murphy
I think it’s fantastic. You’ve done such a phenomenal job with this.
Jackie Ogilvie
This is what I spent my time doing during the lockdown.
Niall Murphy
Uh-huh.
Jackie Ogilvie
When I first came here, I was asked to create a museum, but it was just an empty room, completely empty. There were about 1 or 2 bits and pieces lying about in the station. And then we started to pull them together. In my previous roles, one of the key points of my role when I worked in banking was networking. When I came to Network Real, I was really at a disadvantage because I didn’t know anybody. Mhmm. So I made it my business to start networking Mhmm. Because I couldn’t do what was that I’d been asked to do without Yeah. A lot of people’s help. One of the first people that I contacted was Norry Gilliland a lovely young man who wrote Glasgow’s forgotten village all about the Grahamston story. And we met here. And he told me about these boards, which detail so much of Grahamston’s story. And he said he’d use them to launch his book at the Mitchell library and he said I think they’re just lying in a cupboard somewhere you know not getting you you may want to ask. So I met with Duncan Dornan. Duncan Dornan is the man who’s in charge of all the museums and libraries in in Glasgow. And he very very kindly arranged for these boards to be gifted, down to ourselves, and it’s just wonderful. When I first got them, I I kinda was saying to people, and this saved me an awful lot of work. It didn’t save me an awful lot of work. I would never have done as much work as this. You know? I wouldn’t have done half of this. This is a fabulous fabulous addition.
Niall Murphy
It really is.
Jackie Ogilvie
And it’s wonderful that it’s been brought out the cupboard and everybody’s been able to see it. Yeah. I just like that it’s we brought it from the depths of the archives and the Mitchell Library to them. So, yes. So so Norrie’s boards were wonderful. And again, the the maintenance team and the station, they, created the boards and and did did all of this to try and display them as best we could. And of course, there’s 2 two buildings left from Grahamston. There’s lots of stories about cobble streets down underneath, and shop fronts and all the rest of it. That’s not true. Sadly. Sadly. It’s not true. It’s not true. However, what was what is the Rennie Mackintosh Hotel opened in about 1800. So we don’t have any 1600s at Grahamston stuff. We have 1800s opened originally as a Duncan’s Temple and then down just round the corner and onto Argyle Street, we have the Grant Arms, and they are both roundabout 1800s, but they are original. Grahamston buildings, and that’s really all that’s left of Grahamston.
Niall Murphy
Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah. Because everything else
Niall Murphy
We helped with
Jackie Ogilvie
with the Yes. They did.
Niall Murphy
Conservation of it. So so there was a lot
Jackie Ogilvie
of conservation done down on that building during lockdown, wasn’t it?
Niall Murphy
Yeah. It was. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
Because I was concerned at first, and then I realised it was actually somebody doing something to keep it.
Niall Murphy
Great to get up close because I had to inspect it also.
Jackie Ogilvie
And they do celebrate it. Yeah.
Niall Murphy
They’ve done a fantastic job on it.
Jackie Ogilvie
So a really interesting completely away from architecture, but a really interesting story about the Grant Adams. Part of Scottish legal system is a thing called the Moorov doctrine. Yes. The Moorov doctrine is where so in Scotland, you must have corroboration. We’re not like England down south. You must have a corroborating witness for any crime to have been committed except. So back in the day, above the Grant Adams up here, there’s a tailors. And the tailor employed young women seamstresses, lots of them. And they came and they went and they came and they went. And the young lady went to the police because he was being inappropriate with her. And they said, well, do you have any witnesses? No. We don’t have any witnesses. And then another young lady went to the police and said he was being inappropriate. Mhmm. Mhmm. And several then went And it went to the high courts the courts of land and they introduced what was called the Moorov doctrine. He was Moorov was the man’s name. He was the tailor. And it was where you had so now in Scotland, whilst we look for corroboration normally under the more of doctrine, what you can have is this is a very simple explanation, by the way. I’m not a legal mind at all. But this is a simple is that you can have multiple people telling you the same thing with the same details about the same person. And that becomes that whilst they went there when each crime was committed, they are telling you that the same thing has happened. And that’s called the Moorov doctrine. And that all happened in the Grant Arms.
Niall Murphy
I’m off
Jackie Ogilvie
the Grant Arms. So Yeah. Yeah.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. That’s a Yes. Yeah. Another weak story. Scottish Scottish legal precedent,
Jackie Ogilvie
which
Niall Murphy
is, yeah, really, really interesting.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes.
Niall Murphy
I think that’s again, that’s a world first, that one.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. It is. Yeah. Absolutely. But then, Glasgow is always a a leader. Cutting edge city. Absolutely. Always. Always. Always. So one of the things that I thought you might be interested in is our station masters. Station masters of Glasgow Central Station was a very prestigious job, very prestigious. I mean, to be a station master anyway was good, but to get central station, ah, you made it. You’ve done it. You were right at the top of the tree. So when I started, I thought it might be quite good to try and find out more about the station masters. I was kind of half hearted going into it. Just touching and looking and finding. And if something landed on my lap, I was okay. And then so what I didn’t know was about a man here called, we have a photograph in the museum of him, and his name is Thomas Allison. He was here from 1903 to 1919. That man there took the station through the 1st World War.
Niall Murphy
Wow.
Jackie Ogilvie
That must have been quite some job. Yeah. And remembering back in the day, the station master would have been responsible for everything in the station. So took it through the world war. So I knew about Thomas Allison. I knew where he was buried. I knew he’d lost one of his sons in one of the wars. Knew a bit about him. I’ve got his work history. Knew all about that. So I thought, I know a bit about him. And then I also knew about a man called I got told about a man called John Gibson. John Gibson was here for a year, only a year. He was station master, and he died up in the tracks. He was responsible for shunting work, supervising shunting, and he it was a very dense fog. Add to that all the steam and the steward and the muck for the steam locals, and he stepped out of the way of 1 engine right into the track of another. And he was killed up on the tracks. Right. He died the following day. But my grandfather’s name was John Gibson.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
Not the same John Gibson. My brother’s name is John Gibson.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
Guess what? I was hooked. Yeah. I can imagine. Oh no. I need I need to do more. So I then found out about Robert Scorgi a man who I have his walking cane all inscribed. And he was here between 1922 and 1937 and I started digging a little bit more I subscribed to old newspapers to do some research and I now have I then ended up with every station master from George Farquharson when we opened our doors right through to 1944, a man called Thomas Tinning in 1944. Thomas Tinning came, and and it almost came out it almost came to an end, and I couldn’t get any information about him. I saw his appointment, didn’t see anything else, and really struggled to find anything else during my research. I think he was I thought he was kind of maybe found out that he might be buried in Lanark, but, hey ho, I’m not sure. And it really became quite demoralising because everybody else didn’t know how well we stayed here or anything. But when I was doing more research and more research, I so I kind of parked it. But one of the things I found out was that Thomas Allison, the man I thought I knew so much about, just a wee tiny snippet in the newspaper, and I saw a wee bit about him that he traveled back to his father. His father owned a farm in West Lothian. The farm was called Parkhead Farm. I went to Parkhead Primary School Uh-huh. Which is built on Parkhead Farm in West Lothian.
Niall Murphy
It’s a small world.
Jackie Ogilvie
I think there is greater power. Yeah. Absolutely. It was meant to be. I think it was meant to be. It was I I could not believe. He was born less than a mile from where I was born. Yeah. So I was born in the house, not in in the hospital. So I I was absolutely taken aback, but still frustrated with the, Thomas Tinnings thing. And then last October 2023, I went and hollered and came back to an email, an email from a gentleman who lives in Inverness. And he says, Jackie, I’m coming down. I don’t know where everybody gets my email with it. It must be floating about in the system somewhere. I’m coming down to do the tour on Wednesday. And I just wonder if you would like some stuff that I’ve got. It belonged to my grandfather. My grandfather used to be the station master of Glasgow Central Station, and his name was Thomas Tinning. Oh my heavens above. I was jumping up and down. And they all thought I was mad. But this is something that so what I now have and I have it on display here is a photograph an etching of Thomas Tinning man with the top hat there. I also have his gold watch. I also have newspaper cuttings telling me more about the story of this man and he was I believe he was the last station master.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
After that, it became station manager. So was it a
Fay Young
very different culture when you had a station master? How always
Jackie Ogilvie
the relation with the rest of it? Yes. If you look at any of the photographs of station masters, they were quite stern looking, you know, and very, very authoritarian. And they they wore a long black coat, a top hat, and they usually had a walking cane. There’s Robert walking cane. So so we have a walk and they would strut about, but they were responsible for everything. So you think about the station today, we have Drew Burns, who’s our network rail. He runs the station. He’s responsible for the security of the station, the efficient running of the station. Then we have Kat McGee, who is she’s the ScotRail manager for the station. She manages the trains. We have an Avanti manager. We’ve got all the so the train operating companies are very They have
Niall Murphy
their managers.
Jackie Ogilvie
Right. So they have their own managers. Drew manages the station itself, the building, the infrastructure, and the security of the station, and all the maintenance that goes along with it. Whereas back in the day, stationmaster would have that, plus all the trains, plus all the shunting, plus all everything. Everything that would have been underneath. So quite incredible. Mhmm.
Fay Young
I’m just looking at that board there.
Jackie Ogilvie
The I know. The vital statistics at the station and and 111,000 passengers every day. Yep. That’s That’s amazing, isn’t it? So I’ve just confirmed what our our statistics are just now. So we’re back up to maybe about on average daily, about 80 to 90,000, which which is good because we were way, way down post COVID. I was gonna say. So the weekends tend to be very busy. Right. You know, we’re we’re back up to where we were at the weekends, but not so much, not so much through the week. Still needing to get up a wee bit further. Working from home is the the Yeah. Frustration for us. A real problem for the city centre.
Fay Young
It is. It is. I
Niall Murphy
mean, it’s it’s it’s like a catch twenty three. Glasgow’s got a really good commuter network. So it means you can work from home relatively easily. Yes. And that’s gone against the city centre. All those people who would have come into the city centre, a lot of them are now working from home. Yes. And that is putting the city centre kind of, the economy of the city centre under pressure.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. And and and the rail was just part of it. Yeah. This is a kilt. A kilt made from the kilt.
Niall Murphy
Made from railway tickets. Love it.
Fay Young
Fabulous. Very nice.
Niall Murphy
That is fabulous. Great fun.
Fay Young
But isn’t it weird the effect of COVID and lockdown? What was your work like here? What what were you It was like
Jackie Ogilvie
a ghost town when we came in to begin with. I missed it dreadfully. I missed the interaction. Mhmm. The human the human points. Yeah. I mentioned to you earlier, I’ve always worked with people. Yeah. People are what make me get up in the morning. Yeah. People coming on the tour help me get through my day, make my day better for meeting them. And I really, really miss that. Mhmm. And I came back to work and I thought I think I was given the the option to to retrain, to to do some of the stuff that was going on upstairs and or work on with the museum. And I am so glad that the option that I was you know, I took the option to work in the museum. It was the right decision for me and for the station and the tours. I’m glad I did that. The museum just started to come together. And it is that I have to say at times at the beginning, I kept thinking, I don’t know how I had all these ideas, lots of ideas, but bringing them to fruition was a challenge, to say the least. And getting things done, getting the pieces that you needed to fill this room, I mean, to begin with, it was very empty. And then I started doing re extra bits, you know, and then something would come. I think when the penny dropped, I thought we could absolutely do the museum. The clocks. Mhmm. The big clocks that we have, which were they’re not that old, maybe 50, sixties at the very oldest because because the the face is covered with perspex, not glass. Mhmm. So that allows us to age it much younger than we would have liked it to have been. But we had all these clocks and we managed to get the I say we. I just nagged and nagged, and I was the pusher, and and got the maintenance team, Our maintenance team in central station, they’ve helped me do my job. Without them, we wouldn’t have a museum. It would be a pile of old stuff in the middle of the room. So the museum is as much theirs as mine. And they managed to help get the clocks working. And then I went off for a few days. And I came back. And they had put them up. And I was extremely emotional coming in. Because at that point, I thought this is a big step forward. Then getting the boards for Grahamston, then the railings. We found these railings, which Railway Heritage believed them to be probably original to 1901, 1906. And And we found them just leaning up against the wall somewhere in the station. Heavy as well. Well, because on your I kept thinking everything else has been everything else has gone. Everything else has gone to the scrappy to get money for it or whatever. I’m speculating it. Probably not, but everything had gone, and these were still there. And I couldn’t understand why. And then we tried to move them. And we realised. And it took 3 men and a huge, big trolley to bring these from where we found them in one of the corridors to here and they are just and then the guys again they put them up here They frame the clocks. They absolutely, you know, they just yeah. They set that off.
Niall Murphy
They’re so elegant. So they’re really,
Jackie Ogilvie
really accordion. And and I’ve had people on the tour who do this for a living. You know, they do iron work, and they said, what is there is very, very difficult. It’s very intricate for Iron work to achieve.
Niall Murphy
Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah. As a very skilled person, it’s nice.
Fay Young
Yeah. Such pride in producing something. Absolutely.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yep. So lots of bits and pieces, some which we know what they are, some not so much. A lot of telecom stuff, a lot of blueprints and, you know.
Niall Murphy
But then telecom stands. So why, John will Logie Baird , you know Absolutely. Had had, you know, did his experiment from Central Station Hotel because you had the straight run all the way down to London. Yes. So he could, you know, he could prove it, and then he could they could get the message back saying it was working
Jackie Ogilvie
or not. I think it was 1926 he sent from London to Glasgow Central Station Hotel the very first television signal. Yeah. And it was on in black and white. It was on a very small screen. Yes. But it was the first. Yes. And I just wonder what would make of what we’ve got today.
Niall Murphy
I know. Yeah. Absolutely.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. I do wonder what it would make of what we’ve got today. It’s quite interesting. One of the things I also did when I came here, and this was really instigated by Susan Holden, who was the station manager at that time was to engage with we wanted to to make this a Glasgow museum, a Glasgow to bring people in, and and work with us. So Glasgow School of Art was a natural choice. So I contacted Glasgow School of Art. Now I’m a great believer in why things happen. It seems to just sometimes be fate. Mhmm. I phoned Glasgow School of Art, and I was speaking to I can’t remember if it was a press office or or it was somebody, you know, in the offices, and I was saying, look. Here’s what we’re thinking about doing. We would like to do a piece, maybe a couple of murals or a piece of art for the museum, for, you know, the tour, and and who do you think? When I was on the phone to them, a young man called Paul Maguire happened to be in the room at the same time. He heard the conversation and he said, I’ll take that. Thank you very much. And the rest, they say, is history because Paul and I have now worked on the 2 murals here. We have plans afoot to do much more. So that will hopefully be coming. Tell you about that when we go down to the Victorian platform. So in the museum here, the mural, the projection onto the wall was created by 20 3rd year students who were 3rd year in 2019. Right. And I just said to them, I’ve got a big white wall. Gonna fill it, please. Something about the station. It was a very loose brief, but that was the first time, these group of students had ever had a real customer. It was giving them great experience for going out into the real world. So I had a budget. I had, you know, a kind of a spec of what I wanted Yeah. And where the location and what you could deal with and you’re the subject matter. And that allowed them to to almost create a contract and deal Yeah. A customer. I was their customer. And they did it. And I think it’s wonderful. I think it’s absolutely wonderful. And the music, I think, is just, just fabulous. Yes.
Fay Young
Reading the reports of of how this work developed, there seemed to be a real emotional connection with the work, with, especially the wartime memories, and, Paul Maguire, seemed to be really
Jackie Ogilvie
Paul Maguire, I think his piece when we talk about the 1st World War, I think his piece there it just I don’t know what to say because I just think it really it nails it. It absolutely nails it. It personalises what we’re talking about. It kind of makes it more real to the people of Glasgow. Should we go and have a look at it? Yes. Of course. Come on.
Fay Young
The door opens and closes as we move from the museum into a really different space. It’s dark and silent, and we’re standing in front of a wall where the names of the fallen flicker in white on black. These are the names of the 17,000 soldiers who died in the First World War. It’s a very simple display which constantly changes with the names of the fallen alongside their street addresses, and that’s what seems to stir very powerful emotions in the people who stand here and look. So when we came when I came here, we did have, like, the stretcher and the World War I wheelchair and what have you, but that was it. There was nothing here except the history of at the beginning, the very early days of World War I, this was used as a temporary mortuary. It would be a bit of a mixture of soldiers who were brought home because of repatriation, which only lasted for a very brief time, I believe. But there would be a huge amount of soldiers who would arrive here who were coming home sick, alive, but died en route but they would arrive here. Very really, Paul and I both had a really strong feeling about creating something here. I didn’t know what we wanted. I knew how I wanted to feel, but I didn’t want I didn’t know. I’m not an arty person. I actually didn’t even know what was available. And then when Paul Maguire came along, and he started talking about, you know, a moving mural, a line. You know, this this kind of thing. And this was new to me. I I didn’t know you could have done something that’s as creative as this. And and I’ll never forget the 1st day he showed me because we were sat there on a couple of wee stools, and he had his laptop. And he showed me it. And and I showed it on just on a small screen. And whenever I saw it, I I knew I knew then Mhmm. It was exactly what we needed and exactly the right thing to be here, which was just it was just wonderful. And so huge, huge thanks to Paul Maguire. And we’re going to do some more work with them. And we’ve already got stuff in the pipeline. So but I’ll tell you about when we get there.
Niall Murphy
It’s just The street names? Yes. Funny, it’s not the individual names. It’s the street names. Because you recognise the streets. Because the streets you walked at so you have a kind of connection with the streets, and then you’re thinking that somebody who is so young lost their life. I I just find that really emotional and
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah. I I think it makes it makes it our list. Yeah. Our city’s list as opposed to an anonymous list.
Niall Murphy
I have seen my own street in this. Oh, right. Oh, that’s my street.
Jackie Ogilvie
And it changes all the time.
Niall Murphy
So young would have died.
Fay Young
It’s it’s so simple, but the silence is also really effective, isn’t it? Just seeing Very much. The names standing
Jackie Ogilvie
And that just runs all the time. It’s on a loop. And it just from the 7 it’s a database of the 17,696 that lost their life, and and then it just pulls them out Right. At random. It’s a random program that just brings different ones. Yeah. So you could stand here all day. I see my surname on it. I’ve only seen it a couple of times, and I’m down here all the time. So it’s different people all the time coming through. Some names do come up. You see them. They do come up more often.
Niall Murphy
And Watson, Saint Andrews Road, Pollokshields .
Jackie Ogilvie
But yeah. But all the addresses are the Glasgow addresses. So when we’re coming down here, you have to remember in the station that so good trains would come into the station quite a lot back in the day. Goods would come in, and then the goods would need to be dispersed across the station across the city. And of course, that was done by horse and cat. Central station has its own stables. So here we have part of the old stables. So along at the end there, you can see wooden slatted bits there. So apparently that would open and they would put down the feed the horse feed for the horses rather than bring it through all the corridors and bring it down. They would just drop it down, and then that would allow them to feed the horses. So Right. This is some of the stables. And it’s always quite difficult to because you’re looking at this smaller room, but there’s been so many additions that have been added on and done, And so so this is probably not exactly what the stables would have looked like back then, but they’ve been adapted to the needs of the station as as the station’s needs have changed.
Niall Murphy
Okay. So it’s that floor above this concrete
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. Which is
Niall Murphy
fascinating too. So that would
Jackie Ogilvie
be because that’s the base of the low level. So that’s a more modern wall, because what the low level’s been renovated and redone when numerous times going through. So this is, believe it or not, the green corridor. We’re we’re very, very creative in the railway when we’re giving names to places. And just for for anybody listening in, it’s painted top to bottom. Good morning. So all these cables, they’re supplying. So some of them are power. Yeah. Some of them are technology. Yeah. Right. But miles upon miles upon miles. Miles. And the reason that they are all on the surface is because they’re all post filled. When the station opened her door, she was just lit by gas. Yeah. She was heated by steam. We had with no appetite whatsoever for electricity. So that’s why when you see all the cabling, it’s not always as visible as it is in this particular corridor, but it is all on the surface.
Fay Young
It’s the nervous system, isn’t it? Of the station.
Jackie Ogilvie
I wouldn’t like there to be a fuse blown in any of them. I let them.
Niall Murphy
Here we go. Thank you.
Jackie Ogilvie
So of course, we’re now we’ve emerged from a wee door on the side that you’ve maybe all passed a 1000 times, and we’re now in the low level platform 16 and 17. Come on, let’s head through and we’ll get down another set of seats. Can I just get everybody to tuck into the left? And that lets people running for the train get get passed.
Niall Murphy
So next, Jackie takes us through the small door in the otherwise ordinary corridor that takes you down to the low level platforms. And through this door, you get into a very compressed space and you have to lower your head to step under a beam. And then you’re at the top of the steel stair overlooking this kind of vast, dark, open space. And as you descend into it, gradually, you get to see things like these enormous iron clasp columns that you realize are supporting this kind of huge heavy station above. And this right in the depths of the station is what is going to be the Victorian platform. This is is a treat.
Fay Young
Oh, she’s in.
Jackie Ogilvie
I need to lock in stone.
Niall Murphy
Thank you very much.
Jackie Ogilvie
Just mind your heads on the second door. We could down the bottom of the stairs and go left.
Fay Young
I would. Look at that.
Niall Murphy
I know. Fabulous columns.
Jackie Ogilvie
So this bit, the view from the top of the stairs here, to me Mhmm. This is the most impressive. And so many people walk right past this as they’re coming down to the Victorian platform and their eagerness to get down. To me, when people stop here, they’re usually engineers or architects. Engineers are architects.
Niall Murphy
Just the scale of the engineering is something else.
Jackie Ogilvie
See that there? Uh-huh. That there? That big bit of that column and that big lump of concrete Yep. Is holding up central station. I know. It’s amazing, isn’t it?
Niall Murphy
I mean, it’s so huge, and it’s it’s the fact that they went all the effort to make it a classically detailed column as well. It’s quite something. It’s beautiful, and yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
It is beautiful. So this is very atmospheric down here. The Victorian platform was used right up until 1964. Steam trains would have come through here, and then in ‘sixty four, it closed. That was Beechings cuts again. And it remained closed right up until 1979. And when they reopened pre-sixty four, there was track, platform, track, track, platform, faraway track. And when they opened in ‘seventy 9, they just opened
Niall Murphy
2
Jackie Ogilvie
of the track, which is 16 and 17 today, which is just on the other side of the wall that we’re all looking at. So here, it became a closed space. These modern walls, maybe ‘seventy seven, ‘seventy eight, they would be built. And the reason for that was just to make the low level a more manageable space. It was just to keep it tidy, I suppose, and lock this off because it wasn’t being used. And Paul, he managed to find it. I think he was aware of it anyway. And over a period of time, first of all, when they did the tours, you would stand at the top and look through a hole in the wall. Then they cut a doorway in the wall and they had a platform and then we got our lovely Victorian staircase. Yes. Maybe not. It’s a bit harsh, but it meets the requirements for health and safety. Yes. So which is the most important thing down here. So an interesting thing down here, the girders here. Now underneath what you can see there is concrete. Of girders If those if we took that concrete off, that would look like that. Mhmm. And the reason it has concrete on it to protect it from corrosion from the steam trains. Mhmm. So that was the Victorians that did that. Right. Part of the the works that they did on the Argyle line Mhmm. And and COVID, I have lost track of time. I think it’s now 2 years ago Mhmm. When we closed for 3 or 4 months. And part of the work that was done was taking the concrete off all of the the the the the length of the tunnel, the Argyle tunnel. And that’s because they really want to be able to see what’s going on and With the actual
Niall Murphy
steel work.
Jackie Ogilvie
With the actual steel work as opposed to having it covered up. Yeah. And not knowing till something goes wrong.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. Until it starts corroding. Yes. Yep.
Jackie Ogilvie
A check every year, always pass. Right. These were made to last.
Niall Murphy
Right. Absolutely. They’re
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely made to last. And and we could I doubt if we could build this station today. Took over 10,000,000 Glasgow bricks to build this station. Mhmm. We’d be able to find 10,000,000 bricks today.
Niall Murphy
I know. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
That that would be your first problem. The whole brickwork don’t
Niall Murphy
we don’t we don’t have, like, a Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
Industrial capacity anymore.
Fay Young
No. That’s right.
Jackie Ogilvie
So 16 and 17 is just through there. For a bit of context, when we’re standing looking at the old track bed, this would have been an eastbound line. Out there is the west, so that would be the SEC. Out that way, Argyle Street, that’s north, that’s south. Mhmm. That just gives you a wee feel for your direction because it’s very difficult to keep a handle on.
Niall Murphy
It is. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
I mean, really difficult. Yes. And sometimes I’m I think, oh, where where I’m where I’m. You know? It takes a wee minute. I need to be something just to to bring me back into to on track as to where we are.
Niall Murphy
Absolutely. But the low-level Station would have been very different as well because where that hotel now is the Yotel Yeah. Just to the west, that was actually open. Yes. Because you you had, like, a parade of shops around it, but it was an open well. Yes. So you didn’t have daylight coming into
Jackie Ogilvie
I kind of when people say to me, what the access for here? So current level, the access was where it is today. And access for here was from our. So where where the hotel is, I tell people you’re you’re using your as a well. I just see it’s a big hole because that’s what when you look at photographs that’s what it looks like and and it it was open so there would be access it would be ventilation would be part of that. Down here also, I’m still researching. I have no idea what it’s going to come out as, but we have a couple of good sidings here. These are ends of good sidings here. So we think that what happened was goods would have come in to the station in wagons, The wagons would be shunted into the sidings, and they would be unloaded and loaded. So they would be taken out the hole or the well, taking out that would be the access point for getting it out again. And we think the piece around the back initially, we did think it might be a ladies waiting room, but It never sat well with me because it’s the wrong side of the track. So it didn’t fit. It’s also much more than I thought. So that’s been storage that’s been warehouse and potentially there would be more access beyond round the back there’s chamber after chamber after chamber under arches all the way to Midland Street and beyond. So it’s quite
Niall Murphy
It makes sense when you think about the station’s location, the Clyde being so close. You know? You would get goods being unloaded from here and then being taken down to the Clyde to be loaded onto a ship. Mhmm. So that’s what all most of the buildings, certainly, to the south of here, were all big warehouse buildings for that purpose.
Jackie Ogilvie
Absolutely. And I think it’s important to remember what was here before because when we look now, if we we’ll take a wee wander around the back here. I have some maps right here. And these maps, whilst I love them, they actually make me feel a bit sad. And they make me sad because they are all of our old stations. The 4 main stations, mind your feet on this wee bit. It’s a bit uneven. The 4 main stations in Glasgow, the 4 so central stations, St. Enoch, Queen Street and Buchanan Street. And when you look at the picture of you’re on the map of the station and then look around it, look. Look.
Niall Murphy
Yeah. So
Jackie Ogilvie
Industry, manufacturing. We’re making things, millions of things, all different things, and it’s all gone. Yeah. So that makes me sad.
Niall Murphy
Yes. Yeah.
Jackie Ogilvie
And then also what made me sad was the fact that I thought Glasgow must must have been very, very poor. Because look, poor house, poor house. Then I remembered we were in Glasgow, it’s public house. And I hate to say it, but most of them are still here today. So this is a good picture of original station, the St. Columba’s Gaelic Church just sitting right there. So that’s what you see what was there and what wasn’t there and all of this. And that’s, of course, how the Hielanman’s umbrella got its name because the highlanders would come out of the church, and they would take their way down somewhere to gather to first of all, to to to get out the rain. Employers would come along and offer them work. They would also come along just just generally to to mingle, to catch up with friends and family, but news maybe a bit back home and also especially to talk Gaelic. Uh-huh. Mhmm. That was one of the big things. So that’s why it’s called the Hielanman’s umbrella. Right.
Niall Murphy
Fascinating because you had different the entrance was Mhmm. Originally. Yeah. But you had this much
Jackie Ogilvie
Yeah.
Niall Murphy
You know, you have this booking hall in the centre where it had 2 passengers either side of it.
Jackie Ogilvie
And, of course, look how much further forward the tracks are. But then you’ll get the platform in that. Very, very different. I mean, right away, it comes.
Niall Murphy
And there’s your platforms the other way around. So platform 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.
Fay Young
Yeah. And there’s just something very strong and powerful about these lines coming into this.
Niall Murphy
But it makes you realise why they they would have pulled them back because you get much, much
Fay Young
more Yes.
Jackie Ogilvie
Yes. Very much so. Yeah. Very harsh so. And, of course, they added the slope. Mhmm. So, probably you probably maybe maybe have noticed that there is a slope when you come in, and that was James Millers. Very subtle crowd control. Very subtle. It’s very subtle because you don’t always realise it unless you’re lugging a big Yep. Heavy case or what have you. And as you’re walking in, but it’s a slope, so it comes in and it’s cramped through. Level there. Yep.
Niall Murphy
And by the time you’re out here, you’re kind of looking at the Hielanman’s umbrella. Yeah. You’re 2 stories up. So which is fascinating. It’s so subtle.
Jackie Ogilvie
But quite incredible.
Fay Young
So are you planning to develop this
Niall Murphy
this map.
Fay Young
Area or
Jackie Ogilvie
So down here, more maps because everybody loves a map. Probably put up some more maps. What I really want to do because on the tour, we don’t really cater a huge amount for the people who love the technologies or the technical side of the railways, the track, the signalling. We hope this wall here, opposite the maps, to have offcuts of all the different types of tracks that you have, all the bits that you use to make a track, to lay a track. It’s not just a matter of, you know so we’ll get technical people to assist us in annotating that and explaining that to people. So that’s the plan for that side of the wall. I’ve got a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff to be put down here to address it. Yes. We also, hope to bring in a steam locomotive as well. And we hope to lay track on the track out there and bring in a steam locomotive. Although, really, it’s not an easy task. And part of the problem is silting. Right. So in 2002, there was a terrible flood down here. Mhmm. The water was at the levels of those strip lights, okay? So what is that about 10 feet?
Niall Murphy
Yes. So all this would have been pumped out.
Jackie Ogilvie
We actually contacted North Sea oil rig people and borrowed or rented their pumps. They drilled holes in Hope Street to come down to all the the water up. I take it they put it back in the Clyde because where else could it go? And and it was something to do with the drainage system. When I look at it, I think it must have been fitted back to front or it just it wasn’t suitable and because the Clyde is tidal. And then when the tide was really high for a particular reason and the water came in. It couldn’t get back out again. So they fixed the problem because we did have a we had a drainage system that wasn’t fit for purpose because it didn’t work properly. It wasn’t allowing the water to escape, and they fixed all of that. It won’t happen again, but it caused a lot of work down here, a lot of lot of issues down here. I can imagine. The low level was closed for for a long time. They they brought that back. Yeah. But they left where we are just now, and that left about 2 to 3 feet of silt. So when we’re looking to bring our locomotive in, we have the the silting is fine because it’s a solid base for us to lay our track, but we have a height differential. And that means we would have to push a 26 and a half ton locomotive up. Help. Help. I don’t think it’s an easy thing to do safely. And it’s all about safety. We think we might have a solution, but we’re waiting to see. Interesting. I hope
Niall Murphy
that will be so amazing.
Jackie Ogilvie
It will be. But, initially, what we’re doing now is we are we need to start with fire safety, and that’s our starting point
Niall Murphy
and
Jackie Ogilvie
see what we need to do to make it safe to do what we want to do. The school of art have come up with some fabulous, fabulous stuff. So current students work under the stewardship of Paul Maguire again. He has been fabulous, and some of the stuff they’ve come up with is just wonderful. And so because of if we do down here, what we’ll need to it’s gonna have a real impact on the tourism. What we need to do is cut some of the stories from up the stairs. We just can’t accommodate that in the day or in the time of the tour. So the plan will be that we cut the stories from up there, but we give access to that information down here. And he’s come up with a thing called a Pepper’s ghost. So it’s it’s augmented reality, and some of the Victorian invention that was done by lights, but we are going to use iPads or tablets, and it might be myself or Paul narrating the stories or you know, that we’ve cut from up the stairs and the QR codes to get behind all of that.
Niall Murphy
Right.
Jackie Ogilvie
So give people still give them the information, but not not delivering it there and then taking up their time. And then you can tailor that then to the people that want to hear about that in particular. The trouble’s gonna be telling what’s what we need to cut out. That’s, you know, that’s a lot of the the stuff that we need to cut out. So so so that’s future.
Fay Young
Unless it’s like layers, like you’ve got in the station, you know, you go for down to different parts. You you reach Yeah. The underground eventually.
Jackie Ogilvie
It’s just it’s an incredible, incredible building.
Niall Murphy
Mhmm. It really is. Still my favourite in Glasgow.
Fay Young
Yeah. What a wonderful project for Glasgow School of Art students.
Jackie Ogilvie
Oh, they they’re just great, and they’re so enthusiastic. They are and and I have to say, I am as I’ve said earlier, I am not an arty person. I’m not these people are so creative, and they do it, you know that’s why they go to that school, obviously, but it comes to them, and and you think, how did you think of that? So I am I’m in great admiration for these lovely students that I think will definitely go on and do great things. And whilst it’s a local school, there are people from all over the world attending that school Yeah. And having a part Yes. An influence on part of Central Station. How fabulous is that? Absolutely.
Fay Young
But the way you tell the stories, the way you connect with it will also be a great inspiration to them.
Jackie Ogilvie
I hope so. It’s I often get told I should be on the stage. Paul is the same. And what you have to remember is what I’ve shown people when they come around here. I don’t have once you come underneath yes. We have a fabulous structure up the stairs, but once you come underneath, it’s brickwork arches. It’s not an awful lot. I don’t have beautiful paintings on the walls. I don’t have, you know, wonderful statues. What we have are stories, and it’s the stories that bring it alive. It’s the human element. It’s the human element. Yeah. And that’s what people relate to. That’s why this tour is so popular. Yeah. It’s It’s not because we’ve got the best building well well, we do have the best building. But it’s not because we have the most striking building on I don’t know whatever In every place.
Fay Young
Yes. In every part of it.
Jackie Ogilvie
It is. It’s the stories. Yeah. And everybody can relate to all of these stories at some point. So they might not relate to all of the stories, but they will relate to some of them. Yeah. And that’ll continue if we keep telling the stories. Yeah.
Niall Murphy
Thank you very much. Thank you. Absolute pleasure. Okay. And finally then, and this is a question we ask everybody who comes on the podcast, what is your favourite building in Glasgow, and what would it tell you if it’s walls could talk?
Jackie Ogilvie
Obviously, my favourite building is Central Station. But if we take that out of the equation, it would be it’s a really a strange reason for having this. It’s a building that I never ever saw much of, but it’s the old stock exchange building on the corner of Nelson Mandela Place and Buchanan Street. It’s where the Lush shop is. It’s up above that, and it’s all the beautiful colours of the brickwork and and the detailing of the brickwork, and I just think that was, you know, the foundation of all the industry that was going on at the time. I just think that’s really an interesting building. And what frustrates the hell out of me is most people don’t even see it. So I think if I could talk, it would tell us what it was like back then, what the trade was like, and and that would give you a real insight into the social history because the trade was what drove people’s jobs, people’s lifestyles, everything. So it would have so much to tell you.
Speaker 5
Glasgow City Heritage Trust is an independent charity and grant funder that promotes the understanding, appreciation, and conservation of Glasgow’s historic built environment. Do you want to know more? Have a look at our website at glasgowheritage.org.uk and follow us on social media at Glasgow Heritage. This podcast was produced by Inner Ear for Glasgow City Heritage Trust and is sponsored by Tunnock’s.